Narendra Modi: Prime Minister of India - Power, Democracy, War & Peace | Lex Fridman Podcast #460
Prime Minister Narendra Modi discusses India's cultural strength, governance reforms, peacebuilding, and the role of technology and education in shaping the world's largest democracy.
3h 17m·Guest Narendra Modi·Host Lex Fridman·
India's Collective Strength
Modi frames his personal authority as inseparable from the 1.4 billion citizens of India, emphasizing the country's historic cultural heritage and its role as a global peacemaker.
Modi’s personal power derives from the backing of 1.4 billion Indians
- Modi states that his strength is not his name but the support of the entire Indian population.
- He links this collective backing to India’s ancient Vedic tradition and the teachings of Swami Vivekananda.
- The claim underscores a leadership philosophy that sees the nation as the source of legitimacy rather than individual charisma.
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00:00:04“My strength lies not in my name, but in the backing of 1.4 billion Indians” — Narendra Modi
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00:00:44“Whenever we speak of peace, the world listens to us. Because India is the land of Gautama Buddha and Mahatma Gandhi.” — Narendra Modi
Every handshake with a world leader represents 1.4 billion Indians
- Modi explains that when he meets foreign leaders, it is not his personal representation but that of the entire nation.
- He ties this symbolism to the deep cultural and spiritual roots of India, reinforcing a collective identity on the world stage.
- The statement serves to remind listeners that diplomatic gestures are backed by the aspirations of the Indian people.
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00:00:30“When I shake hands with a world leader, it's not Modi, but 1.4 billion Indians doing so.” — Narendra Modi
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00:01:11“So, wherever I go, I carry with me the essence of thousands of years of Vedic tradition, the timeless teachings of Swami Vivekananda, and the blessings, dreams, and aspirations of 1.4 billion Indians.” — Narendra Modi
India’s ethos is rooted in harmony and peace, not war
- Modi declares that India espouses harmony, avoids war against nature, and rejects strife among nations.
- He emphasizes a proactive role as a peacemaker, stating that wherever possible India embraces that responsibility.
- This framing positions India as a moral compass in global geopolitics, especially amid rising tensions.
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00:01:06“We espouse harmony instead. We seek neither to wage war against nature, nor to foster strife among nations. We stand for peace.” — Narendra Modi
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00:01:14“And wherever we can act as peacemakers, we have gladly embraced that responsibility.” — Narendra Modi
Fasting as Discipline and Insight
Modi describes fasting not merely as a religious ritual but as a systematic practice that sharpens the senses, accelerates thought, and reinforces spiritual discipline.
Fasting balances inner and outer self
- Modi defines fasting as a powerful tool that brings both the inner and outer self into balance.
- He links the practice to Vedic traditions and Ayurvedic preparation, emphasizing detoxification before the fast.
- The balanced state is presented as a foundation for heightened perception and spiritual growth.
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00:11:24“Fasting is a powerful tool to bring both the inner and outer self into balance.” — Narendra Modi
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00:11:53“When you fast, every single one of your senses, especially smell, touch, and taste, becomes highly sensitive.” — Narendra Modi
Fasting accelerates thinking and offers fresh perspectives
- Modi reports that fasting can greatly accelerate the thinking process and provide a fresh perspective.
- He prepares his body with Ayurvedic and yoga practices for 5‑7 days before the fast, ensuring optimal physical readiness.
- The mental clarity experienced during fasts is described as a catalyst for innovative thinking.
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00:13:00“Fasting can greatly accelerate the thinking process and can, uh, give a fresh perspective.” — Narendra Modi
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00:13:53“For 5 to 7 days before the fast, I follow various Ayurvedic practices and yoga practices, along with other traditional cleansing methods to internally reset my system.” — Narendra Modi
Decades‑long fasting tradition includes Chaturmas and Navratri
- Modi has been fasting for 50‑55 years, integrating seasonal fasts like Chaturmas (single meal per 24 hours for four‑plus months) and Navratri (nine‑day abstention with hot water).
- These long‑term practices are presented as cultural continuity and personal discipline.
- The ritualistic aspect underscores a lifelong commitment to self‑control and spiritual focus.
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00:19:20“I have been following fasts for 50 to 55 years.” — Narendra Modi
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00:17:24“During Chaturmas, we eat only a single meal within 24 hours for about four to four and a half months.” — Narendra Modi
From Poverty to Leadership
Modi recounts his humble beginnings, illustrating how early deprivation forged resilience, work ethic, and a deep empathy for ordinary citizens.
Extreme poverty shaped a mindset immune to material lack
- Modi states his early life was spent in extreme poverty, yet he never truly felt its burden because he never knew the comforts of shoes.
- The metaphor of never having worn shoes illustrates a lack of comparative deprivation, fostering a unique perspective on scarcity.
- This background laid the foundation for his later empathy toward the underprivileged.
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00:01:21“My early life was spent in extreme poverty.” — Narendra Modi
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00:01:21“We never really felt the burden of poverty.” — Narendra Modi
Father’s disciplined routine left an indelible imprint
- Modi describes his father rising before 4 AM, walking long distances, and wearing sturdy leather shoes that made a distinctive ‘tok tok tok’ sound.
- Villagers could tell the time by hearing his footsteps, highlighting the father’s reliability and discipline.
- This early exposure to hard work and punctuality influenced Modi’s own dedication and sense of responsibility.
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00:28:39“He wore traditional leather shoes, handmade in the village. The shoes were very tough and sturdy, making a distinct ‘tok tok tok’ sound when he walked.” — Narendra Modi
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00:28:57“People in the village used to say that they could tell the time just by hearing his footsteps.” — Narendra Modi
Resourcefulness turned canvas shoes into prized possessions
- When Modi received a pair of cheap canvas shoes, he cleaned them using leftover chalk paste, restoring them to bright white.
- He regarded those shoes as a treasured symbol of wealth, reflecting his ingenuity and pride in self‑made assets.
- The anecdote underscores a mindset of making the most of limited resources.
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00:30:25“I would go from classroom to classroom, collecting leftover pieces of chalk that the teachers had discarded. I would take the pieces of chalk home, soak them in water, mix them into a paste, and polish my canvas shoes with it, making them bright white again.” — Narendra Modi
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00:30:49“For me, those shoes were a treasured possession, a symbol of great wealth.” — Narendra Modi
Criticism as the Soul of Democracy
Modi emphasizes that genuine, well‑researched criticism is essential for democratic health, contrasting it with superficial allegations and media sensationalism.
Criticism is welcomed and seen as democratic nourishment
- Modi explicitly states that he welcomes criticism, viewing it as the soul of democracy.
- He frames criticism as a tool for rapid improvement and better governance.
- This stance signals openness to accountability despite his high office.
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00:02:29“If I had to summarize in one sentence, I welcome it. I have a strong belief that criticism is the soul of democracy.” — Narendra Modi
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00:57:29“I welcome criticism. I have a strong belief that criticism is the soul of democracy.” — Narendra Modi
Critics should be close allies for genuine improvement
- Modi cites scripture urging people to keep critics close, arguing that genuine criticism accelerates learning.
- He differentiates authentic critique from mere allegations, stressing depth of research.
- This philosophy encourages constructive dialogue rather than adversarial attacks.
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00:57:53“Critics should be your nearest companions because through genuine criticism, you can improve quickly and work democratically with better insights.” — Narendra Modi
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00:58:00“In our scriptures, it’s said: "Always keep your critics close."” — Narendra Modi
Media often confuses allegations with real criticism
- Modi warns that many media pieces present accusations as criticism without proper investigation.
- He stresses that genuine criticism requires thorough study, deep analysis, and truth‑seeking.
- This critique of media practices highlights the need for higher journalistic standards.
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00:58:30“There’s a big difference between allegations and criticism. The references you're giving, they are allegations, not criticism.” — Narendra Modi
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00:58:59“For a strong democracy, genuine criticism is necessary.” — Narendra Modi
RSS Foundations and Volunteerism
Modi outlines how the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) instilled purpose, discipline, and a massive volunteer network that drives social service across India.
RSS teaches purpose‑driven action in every activity
- The RSS inculcates the principle that any task—study, exercise, or work—must be performed with a clear purpose.
- This purpose‑oriented mindset is meant to serve the nation and develop personal discipline.
- Modi credits this early training for his later commitment to public service.
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00:54:05“One of the core values that were instilled in us at RSS was whatever you do, do it with a purpose.” — Narendra Modi
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00:54:08“Even while I study, I study with the goal of learning enough to contribute to the nation.” — Narendra Modi
RSS volunteers run massive grassroots service projects
- Seva Bharti, an RSS‑affiliated organization, operates roughly 125,000 service projects for slums and settlements without government aid.
- Projects include education, health, and sanitation, reaching millions of underprivileged citizens.
- The scale demonstrates the organizational capacity of the RSS network.
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00:55:52“They run approximately one hundred and twenty‑five thousand service projects, without any government assistance, solely through community support.” — Narendra Modi
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00:55:41“Seva Bharti serves the slums and settlements where the poorest people live, which they call service communities.” — Narendra Modi
RSS drives education in remote tribal areas
- Volunteers have established over 70,000 one‑teacher schools in remote tribal regions, providing basic education where the state presence is minimal.
- International donors in the U.S. contribute modest amounts, illustrating global solidarity with the RSS‑led initiative.
- The effort reflects the RSS’s commitment to long‑term nation‑building through education.
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00:56:34“They have established over 70,000 one teacher schools, in remote tribal regions.” — Narendra Modi
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00:56:45“There are also some people in America who show support for this cause, and contribute donations of about $10 or $15.” — Narendra Modi
Peacebuilding with Pakistan
Modi recounts symbolic gestures toward Pakistan, the challenges faced, and personal anecdotes that illustrate the complexities of Indo‑Pakistani relations.
Inviting Pakistan to the swearing‑in ceremony was a bold peace overture
- Modi personally invited Pakistan’s leadership to his 2014 swearing‑in ceremony, hoping to start a new chapter of cooperation.
- He acknowledges that each subsequent attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal.
- The gesture underscores a willingness to engage despite deep mistrust.
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00:01:56“When I became Prime Minister, I specially invited Pakistan to my swearing‑in ceremony so we could turn over a new leaf.” — Narendra Modi
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00:02:06“Yet, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal.” — Narendra Modi
Modi’s fasting was publicly noted during a White House dinner
- During a bilateral meeting at the White House, Modi was served only a glass of hot water, which he humorously called his dinner.
- President Obama remembered his fasting and joked about it later, highlighting personal rapport.
- The anecdote illustrates how personal habits can become diplomatic talking points.
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00:21:08“When we sat down, they brought me a glass of hot water. I turned to President Obama and jokingly said, "Look, my dinner has arrived!"” — Narendra Modi
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00:21:27“Later, when I visited again, he still remembered. He smiled and said, "Last time, you were fasting."” — Narendra Modi
Modi stresses dialogue with both Russia and Ukraine for peace
- Modi claims a personal relationship with both Russian President Putin and Ukrainian President Zelensky, emphasizing the need for both parties at the negotiating table.
- He argues that peace cannot be achieved on the battlefield; it requires diplomatic engagement.
- This stance reflects India’s broader non‑aligned but facilitative role in global conflicts.
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00:18:03“I can sit with President Putin, and say that this is not the time for war. And I can also tell President Zelensky, in a friendly way, that brother, regardless of how many people stand with you in the world, there will never be a resolution on the battlefield.” — Narendra Modi
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00:18:31“The resolution will only come when both Ukraine and Russia come to the negotiating table.” — Narendra Modi
Election Logistics of the World's Largest Democracy
Modi details the massive scale, innovative logistics, and technological infrastructure that enable free and fair elections for nearly a billion voters.
2024 election involved 980 million registered voters, 646 million voting
- The Election Commission recorded 980 million registered voters, with 646 million casting ballots despite extreme heat.
- Over a million polling booths were deployed across the country.
- These figures illustrate the unprecedented scale of democratic participation.
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00:09:55“There were 980 million registered voters! 646 million people ventured out and braved the intense heat of May, determined to cast their votes.” — Narendra Modi
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00:10:36“We had more than a million polling booths.” — Narendra Modi
Polling stations reach even the most remote citizens
- In Gujarat, a polling booth was set up inside the Gir Forest for a single voter living in isolation.
- Helicopters transport polling stations to inaccessible regions; Arunachal Pradesh hosts the highest‑altitude booth.
- This commitment ensures that no citizen is denied the right to vote due to geography.
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00:11:57“In Gujarat, a polling booth was set up in the Gir Forest for just one voter who was in the middle of nowhere.” — Narendra Modi
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00:11:41“We even use helicopters to transport polling stations. Arunachal Pradesh has the highest‑altitude polling booth on record.” — Narendra Modi
India’s Election Commission sets a global benchmark
- Modi praises the Election Commission as a global standard‑setter for free and fair elections.
- He suggests that top universities should study India’s election management as a case study.
- The Commission’s efficiency is presented as a model for democratic practice worldwide.
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00:12:29“I firmly believe that India's Election Commission sets a global standard as a benchmark for conducting free and fair elections.” — Narendra Modi
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00:12:46“It is a remarkable story that the world’s top universities should consider it a case study.” — Narendra Modi
Decision‑Making Framework
Modi outlines a pragmatic, ground‑level, and nation‑first approach to policy choices, blending data, empathy, and rapid deliberation.
First‑hand district visits provide ground truth
- Modi claims to have stayed overnight in 85‑90 % of India’s districts, gaining direct insight into grassroots realities.
- These experiences supplement official reports, giving him a nuanced understanding of local issues.
- The practice reinforces evidence‑based decision making rooted in lived experience.
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00:24:13“I am perhaps the only politician in India who has stayed overnight in around 85 to 90 percent of the districts across the country.” — Narendra Modi
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00:24:30“I learned a lot from those experiences. They gave me first‑hand knowledge of the ground realities and grassroots‑level issues.” — Narendra Modi
Country‑first yardstick guided by Gandhi’s poorest‑person test
- Modi’s primary decision yardstick is “my country first.”
- He asks whether any action harms the nation and visualizes the poorest person’s face, echoing Gandhi’s advice.
- This moral compass ensures policies prioritize the most vulnerable.
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00:25:25“My simple yardstick for decisions: my country first. I always question if what I'm doing harms my nation in any way.” — Narendra Modi
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00:25:37“Gandhi once said that if you're ever unsure when making a decision, think of the poorest person's face, remember them, and ask yourself, "Will this help them?"” — Narendra Modi
COVID‑19 response prioritized food security over monetary stimulus
- During the pandemic, Modi resisted global pressure to flood the economy with money.
- He focused on preventing hunger and social tension, refusing to print excess currency.
- India avoided the severe inflation that hit many other economies, showcasing disciplined fiscal policy.
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00:28:31“During COVID, I resisted the pressure to flood money. I focused on ensuring the poor do not go hungry and social tensions do not arise.” — Narendra Modi
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00:29:29“We succeeded and kept moving ahead while the world suffered severe inflation.” — Narendra Modi
India’s Role in AI and Technology
Modi asserts that AI development is incomplete without India’s talent, highlights rapid 5G rollout, and stresses ethical Indian leadership in global tech.
AI cannot be complete without India’s talent pool
- Modi declares that regardless of global AI advances, the technology will remain incomplete without Indian participation.
- He points to India’s massive engineering talent as the world’s greatest resource for AI development.
- The statement positions India as an indispensable partner in the AI ecosystem.
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00:32:22“No matter what the world does with AI, it will remain incomplete without India.” — Narendra Modi
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00:35:08“India has the greatest number of engineers, even more than the US.” — Narendra Modi
India achieved the fastest global 5G rollout
- Modi notes that India became the fastest nation to deploy comprehensive 5G networks.
- This rapid rollout showcases India’s capacity to adopt cutting‑edge telecom infrastructure.
- The achievement is used to illustrate India’s technological leadership on the world stage.
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00:34:49“We became the fastest nation globally to roll out comprehensive 5G networks.” — Narendra Modi
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00:34:13“We have already created a unique marketplace‑based model to ensure GPU access to every section of society.” — Narendra Modi
Indian‑origin tech leaders bring ethics and collaboration
- Modi praises Indian tech CEOs (e.g., Sundar Pichai, Satya Nadella) for dedication, ethical conduct, and teamwork.
- He argues that they avoid questionable practices and foster collaborative environments.
- This cultural attribute is presented as a competitive advantage for Indian talent worldwide.
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00:36:14“Indian‑origin tech leaders bring dedication, ethics, and collaborative spirit.” — Narendra Modi
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00:36:38“They never get involved in anything questionable or unethical.” — Narendra Modi
Education Reform and Exam Stress
Modi discusses the Pariksha Pe Charcha platform, new policies to reduce exam pressure, and innovative classroom techniques to foster genuine learning.
Pariksha Pe Charcha gives students a direct voice
- Modi uses the platform to hear directly from students, parents, and educators about exam pressures.
- He emphasizes that exams should assess knowledge, not serve as the sole measure of a person’s potential.
- The dialogue informs policy adjustments aimed at reducing stress and promoting holistic development.
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00:42:01“Pariksha Pe Charcha allows me to get insights directly from the students, understand their parents' mindset, as well as the perspectives of people in the educational field.” — Narendra Modi
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00:43:44“Exams are valuable for assessing knowledge in a specific domain, but they can't become the sole measure of someone's overall potential.” — Narendra Modi
Creative classroom methods teach math through everyday objects
- Teachers asked students to bring specific quantities of chickpeas, rice, or moong beans to class, turning counting into a tactile activity.
- This hands‑on approach reinforces arithmetic concepts without rote memorization.
- Modi cites these methods as examples of the new education policy’s emphasis on experiential learning.
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00:44:40“Teachers used creative methods like giving students specific quantities of chickpeas to teach math.” — Narendra Modi
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00:42:24“We introduced significant changes in our new education policy to address the issue of exam pressure.” — Narendra Modi
Students need confidence, breathing, and practice to overcome exam anxiety
- Modi advises students to take deep breaths, allocate time systematically, and maintain confidence during exams.
- Regular practice of writing test papers builds familiarity and reduces panic.
- These simple techniques are presented as effective tools to manage stress and improve performance.
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00:51:01“Students should have confidence, take deep breaths, and allocate time systematically during exams.” — Narendra Modi
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00:52:01“Practice writing test papers regularly helps overcome anxiety.” — Narendra Modi
Leadership Humility and Personal Relationships
Modi shares anecdotes that reveal his humility, especially in interactions with President Trump, and his self‑identification as a servant rather than a powerful figure.
President Trump walked among the crowd, showing humility
- During a rally in Houston, Trump sat in the audience, then walked into a stadium of thousands without asking security.
- He joined Modi for a lap around the stadium, demonstrating trust and personal connection.
- Modi interprets this act as a sign of courage and mutual respect.
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00:31:05“President Trump sat in the audience, listening to me speak. He then walked into the crowd of thousands without even asking security.” — Narendra Modi
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00:31:05“He agreed to take a lap around the stadium with me, showing humility and courage.” — Narendra Modi
Trump’s resilience after being shot reflects dedication
- Modi notes that even after being shot during a campaign, Trump remained unwaveringly dedicated to America.
- He links Trump’s personal resolve to the “America First” spirit, drawing a parallel with his own “India First” philosophy.
- The anecdote underscores admiration for personal perseverance.
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00:31:26“Even after being shot, he remained unwaveringly dedicated to America, his life was for his nation.” — Narendra Modi
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00:31:38“His reflection showed his, 'America First' spirit, just as I believe in Nation First.” — Narendra Modi
Modi identifies as a ‘Prime Servant’ rather than a powerful leader
- Modi explicitly rejects the label of “powerful,” calling himself a humble servant of the nation.
- He emphasizes service over power, stating that his work ethic focuses on productivity and delivering results for the people.
- This self‑characterization reinforces his narrative of duty‑driven leadership.
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00:14:10“I am a humble servant, not a powerful name. I even identify myself as not the Prime Minister, but the Prime Servant.” — Narendra Modi
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00:14:35“I entered politics not to play power games, but to serve.” — Narendra Modi
Governance Reforms: Direct Benefit Transfer and GEM
Modi details anti‑fraud measures, the Direct Benefit Transfer system, and the Government e‑Marketplace (GEM) that increased efficiency and cut wasteful spending.
Eliminated 100 million fake beneficiaries, saving ₹3 trillion
- A massive audit uncovered 100 million duplicate or fictitious names in welfare schemes.
- Removing these entries saved nearly ₹3 trillion that would have otherwise been siphoned.
- The effort showcases data‑driven governance and fiscal prudence.
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00:39:23“We removed a hundred million fake or duplicate names, saving nearly ₹3 trillion that would have otherwise ended up in the wrong hands.” — Narendra Modi
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00:39:43“Direct Benefit Transfer ensures that every rupee sent from Delhi reaches the rightful person without leakage.” — Narendra Modi
GEM portal increased competition and quality in government procurement
- The Government e‑Marketplace (GEM) platform digitized purchases, cutting time and costs.
- It introduced competition among suppliers, raising quality standards.
- The reform is part of a broader push to modernize public procurement.
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00:40:03“The GEM portal for government purchases has helped save both time and money, increased competition and improved quality.” — Narendra Modi
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00:40:19“We eliminated 40,000 unnecessary compliances and removed nearly 1,500 outdated laws that served no purpose.” — Narendra Modi
⚙ Agent-readable JSON index — click to expand
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